Corsa C Timing Chain Advice

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  1. #1

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    Corsa C Timing Chain Advice

    Hi all

    I purchased this pesky car (Corsa C 2005 1.2 16v Z12XEP) on Monday! Have mainly had Vauxhalls, but this is my first Corsa!

    First proper drive happened this morning on first day back at work. On the way to work (20 miles each way) at junctions it started to sound like a diesel, and on initial clutch put down it would try and stall.

    From reading loads and loads of others posts surrounding this subject, and have not found an answer completely that everyone agrees on.

    Do I have to change water pump at same time, as its not involved with the chain apart from on the housing?

    Does the sump really need to be dropped or is this just precaution? An explanation for this would be a massive help.

    Parts I know I require are

    Timing Kit
    Timing Tools
    Oil / Filter
    Engine Flush
    Rad Flush
    Service kit for other parts
    Rocker cover gasket
    Tools (avoiding the clever comments

    Parts unsure

    Water pump. Which is best one to go for as I get told there are two types, one with removable switch housing, one without. Which is best option or replace like for like?
    Sump gasket



    For timing chain kits I found this one on ebay, has any one used it before? or can you suggest a better one please.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3022886362...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    Sorry for all the questions, thought it better to get it out in one hit than make loads of posts in the coming days. But I'm sure there will be others!

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  3. #2

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    browser keeps crashing and deleting parts that have been typed, and won't allow me to edit it

    From reading loads and loads of others posts surrounding this subject, and have not found an answer completely that everyone agrees on. Except for it is the timing chain

  4. #3

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    You dont have to change the waterpump but its always worth doing if its in bits. Use like for like parts.

    The sump doesnt have to be dropped BUT you might end up with a noisy oil pump so what I recommend is to loosen the sump and just lower it slightly when you fit the side case. Make sure the case i fitted flush with the top of the cylinder head and then tighten it. Then tighten the sump up. My cars been done with the sump left on and it has a noisey oil pump now when it first starts for a few minutes. A mates just had his done and has the exact same issue - the garage left the sump on. To be honest - removing the sump requires just undoing the 3 cat bolts and about 15 torx bolts and its off. Piece of cake. ITs not worth not doing in my opinion. Its also worth removing the sump completely and cleaning the oil strainer which will be blocked. They always are.

    My advice on the chain kit is if your going to keep the car use genuine parts. Cheap aftermarket parts are ok if your looking to sell but honestly you will regret using cheap parts if your keeping the car. Ive seen aftermarket chains rattle after 1000 miles so the choice is yours. Its a pretty easy job to do. As a first time doing the job you should be looking to do it in about 4 hours with removing the sump and cleaning it etc and fitting new pump and bleeding. Dont rush it - just take your time and its actually a pretty enjoyable job to do.

    From my experience with timing chains. They normally go noisey when they are hot but seem fine when cold on the corsa. I think its the tensioner that leaks and the oil pressure escapes from the tensioner when the oils thinner. This was certainly the case with my sisters 1.0lt one that I fitted a new chain too.

    Timing tools are available on ebay for about £15. I bought one and it worked fine. I did however have to take the paint off the crank tool as it didnt fit the hole but took a few minutes with a file. The camlocking bar was perfect. The disc tool was adaquite but in my opinion designed incorrectly as it had a thread inside it and it should have been just a hole - I drilled mine out and also took about 1mm off the bottom of the tool so the "tooth" sat perfect into the cut out on the disc. I was just being picky but I like things to be right and that goes for tools. I cant grumble for £15. I could have got a laser one for £100 and it be perfect but saved £85 for about 5 minutes messing about to make it 100% perfect. The tool is a bargain in my opinion and only the crankpin needed modding the work. the other was modded because I was being fussy but they did work.

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    thank you for a really informative reply.

    going back to the sump, what makes such a difference in lowering it to the oil pump?

    haven't seen inside the engine before so struggling to picture it in my head as to why it would make oil pump noisy

    Tools just been purchased, I'm no overly worried about genuine parts as the cars old with high mileage, and purely a work horse. Have a newer car for other things, but don't want to use it for work and make its mileage high

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    The oil pump sits in the timing chain case and if the sump isnt loosened the timing chain case can sit slightly higher due to not being able to compress the sump gasket when refitting it which puts strain on the oil pump which causes the noise. I think i put some pics on my progress thead.

    Have a browse at the pics - http://www.corsa-c.co.uk/forum/showt...Z10XE-progress

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    what's already been said, good practice to remove and clean the sump and oil pick up strainer.
    water pump does not need to be swapped but its a good time to do it if your unsure of its age as coolant will be drained and you have to take it off anyway.
    you will need a new seal for the water pump to timing case, and fit the same type of pump, the 2 types i have come across can not be swapped between engines.

    best to fit GM parts unless like said you plan to sell on soon. GM kits with all the seals, fluids and a new filter are around £150 with a trade card.

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    It would also be silly not to replace the crankshaft oil seal while the casing is off also.

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    Thank you. Sump now makes perfect sense, and will be getting a gasket for it tomorrow morning.

    timing kit comes with a new oil seal. Two reasons I haven't gone GM parts is mainly the extra cost I really could do without, and its purely to be used for driving to work.
    If this does become a long term car, then if cheap parts fail I will use GM without a doubt. I know it seems counter productive with the cost of parts, but only way it can be done
    quickly as its making awful noises.

    This is the kit I purchased in the end
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1712689984...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    along with a rocker cover gasket, locking kit, and Haynes manual.

    Will be getting sump gasket tomorrow, as after your explanation its a must to come off be cleaned fully.

    Will also have a look at the fitted water pump and see which type it is. But not forgetting to get it a new gasket regardless. Already have antifreeze.

    Reading through your post, and you mention reusing the spacer on the cams. Will that be the case for me as well or use ones that come in the kit?

    only other question Mark!!! do you ever stop? lol

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    Actually sorry there is another question.

    Along with two water pumps there is also two types of gasket. Rubber one and a flat gasket. Do you know which type of pump dictates which type of gasket?

    Sorry for all the questions

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    Do you know which pump you have now?

    My advice regarding the spacer is before you strip the side casing off take the rocker cover off and look at the distance between the camsensor tip and the phases disc and make sure its approx the same when its all refitted. Some kits have the right size spacer. Some dont. Sometimes the original cant be used because of the design of the sprocket. I fitted a cheap kit into the z10xe and spacer was the right size from memory but theres a service bulletin from vx saying to use the original spacer but that might only be when using genuine parts. Its unclear to be honest.
    Last edited by marks152; 20-05-2017 at 09:53.

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    thanks again mark.

    had a look at the water pump today and it seems that it is a fixed switch panel. heres a picture


  14. #12

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    Yours is a SHW pump with gasket part number 24428734. Its the paper type.

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    lovely thanks. Have found one on ebay.

    Is it worth replacing the temp sensor as noticed not one of the pumps comes with a replacement installed?

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    Personally i wouldnt replace the sensor. They are not a common issue and even if it did fail is a 30 second job to do.

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    ok cool thanks.

    I really appreciate all your help and time taken to give it. Hope you dont mind me asking if i have any other questions which may arise

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    Please feel free to ask away. Always happy to help

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    In your other post you said about having to split exhaust nut and get replacements.

    where did you get replacements as only ones I seem to be able to find are £5 each! crazy money for little nut

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    I got them off ebay. From memory they were m8 x 1.25. Ill confirm. In the morning.

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    ok brilliant thank you again

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    I think these were them - http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Flash...%257Ciid%253A4

    £2 for 4

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    Never come accross copper flashed nuts before and I worked for Armstrong Forest Fasteners who supplied all the nuts and fasteners to the automotive sector including Ford, Rover, Vauxhall, Landrover and Jaguar.
    Can't personally see how they are going to be any better than a good high quality steel nut.

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    thanks mark thats brilliant. Ordered some to be on the safe side!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OpComDiagnostics View Post
    Never come accross copper flashed nuts before and I worked for Armstrong Forest Fasteners who supplied all the nuts and fasteners to the automotive sector including Ford, Rover, Vauxhall, Landrover and Jaguar.
    Can't personally see how they are going to be any better than a good high quality steel nut.
    It think its more to do with the different materials not bonding together. We all know if you use steel on steel and put heat into the equation and over time your going to seize them on. The copper nuts dont seem to seize. Just my experience with them. Id never say never but ive never come across any issues with copper nuts for exhausts on cars or bikes. There might be better nuts out there but its certainly cheaper than £5 each

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    most cars use cooper or brass nuts on exhausts around manifold and down pipe.
    helps to prevent them seizing on and rusting due to the heat cycles.
    only pence each from the dealer.

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    The use of brass manifold nuts seemed to be much more common years ago and of course they always came off the studs, even if sometimes they ripped the threads out of the nut. Once they started using steel nuts I agree totally that is where the problems started. I know the theory around copper "flashed" nuts but had never come across them before and to be honest if it helps then good thing but I wonder what the "flashing" process is? I don't think it can just be simple copper plating.

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